I had the absolute pleasure of speaking with Michael Shellenberger, the great journalist behind Public and author of San Fransicko and Apocalypse Never.
Michael is one of my favorite journalists—the kind of journalist I strive to be: He is utterly incapable of saying something he doesn’t think is true, and for that reason, is never on a side. He just tells you what he has learned through his amazing reporting skills.
In this conversation, we discuss his reporting on the Jeffrey Epstein files—what he found and what he didn’t find. We discuss what made him first realize the Left wasn’t what he thought it was. We discuss the problems with independent media and the rise of conspiratorial thinking. And we debated Mahmoud Khalil’s case—one of the areas where we aren’t aligned. We also got into the podcast wars and what happened to Tucker Carlson.
It was such a wonderful conversation—I hope you enjoy it as much as I did!
